Talk:Na'vi
The bones of the Na'vi are brittle yet strong? Can anyone shed some light on the issue? --IWantheUltimateChange 13:22, December 24, 2009 (UTC) ::Quaritch says that the Na'vi have a naturally occurring carbon fiber in their bones, and that they are very hard to kill. One might infer that carbon fiber is brittle yet strong, however I don't know if that is true. Also since it is not the only composition of their bones, I don't believe we can assume anything. Kxetse a-ean 07:38, December 27, 2009 (UTC) ::Note that tennis rackets, racquetball rackets, golf clubs and, I believe, bicycle, car and aircraft chassis all incorporate carbon fiber in some instances. Composite materials, in practice, are designed to increase the strength and capability of the item in question by using combinations of materials that are more than the sum of their parts. I don't think anyone who's taken a swing with a carbon-fiber club would argue that it's a particularly brittle piece of technology. I would argue that, unless the 'brittle' statement comes from a canon source and is cited, that it's in error. --NivikLiriak 03:48, December 31, 2009 (UTC) Why? Why aren't many Na'vi children seen in the movie?Courage the Cowardly User 04:49, May 17, 2010 (UTC) :Children are seen in the movie in several scenes. For example, children are seen hugging Grace when Jake is non-diegetically speaking about how he persuaded the Omaticaya clan to let Grace back in. Just a reminder that we have an awesome Questions/answers wiki for use to aI know they wrenswer these types of questions. --IWantheUltimateChange 10:22, May 17, 2010 (UTC) :I know they were seen but i asked why they didnt appear muchCourage the Cowardly User 22:04, May 17, 2010 (UTC) :There were children in almost every Omaticaya-focused scene (Hometree destruction, pilgrimage, etc). I don't understand the confusion. [[TECTONIUM]] 23:10, May 17, 2010 (UTC) :Alright now i watched it again and saw kids, but why was only 1 baby being seen carried away from hometree, there weren't seen at the Tree of Souls unless i am also mistakenCourage the Cowardly User 00:44, May 18, 2010 (UTC) :: Practicality and aesthetics play a part. i.e. Babies don't play a pivotal role in the plot of the film so there isn't a strong focus on film for the children. And if there weren't any at the tree of souls then then that might be because children aren't directly allowed that close to the site etc. Perhaps they were at the rim, because the adults serve a more spiritual purpose in prayers with Eywa etc etc. The point to really take on board is that there is no point filming a baby for 14 seconds or more because it doesn't really add anything to a plot that is already stretched for time. If you do still have an issue as to why children aren't as expressivly seen in the movie as adults then please contact me on my talk page (I'm always happy to help), forums or go to the Answers wiki because this isn't really suitable for the article; unless of course your planning to put something in relating to children. --IWantheUltimateChange 12:00, May 18, 2010 (UTC) Description Section: The description of the Na'vi has some confusing and conflicting information, as well as what appears to be speculative information. For example: "...They are, however, much larger and typically stronger than humans. ... and, pound for pound, they are probably weaker than humans." I couldn't find a cleanup template or category. Kxetse a-ean 18:19, December 27, 2009 (UTC) :Additional nitpicks: ::• Carbon fiber reinforcement is a strength/weight compromise. ¶2 postulates that Na'vi bones are "extremely rigid and hard to bend but easily crack under focused pressure." I think this is speculative, since it is never really explained. The information is true of what we know about carbon fiber, but there may be other factors of Na'vi physiology that affect or counteract these properties. ::• Citations are needed for the portions that claim Na'vi can communicate via bioluminescence. ::• According to the scriptment, the Na'vi have "no hair whatsoever, though there is what looks like a black pony tail, or queue, originating in the back of the head and hanging down almost to the waist." This suggests that the last sentence of ¶5 is erroneous. :Kxetse a-ean 18:34, December 27, 2009 (UTC) :::See my above statement about carbon-fiber and its use in modern composite materials. Carbon fiber is almost certainly only one component of the Na'vi's bone composition and its role in contemporary composites is similar to that of rebar in concrete http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_fiber_reinforced_polymer#Civil_engineering_applications, permitting a compressively strong but elastically weak material (such as concrete) to gain some of the flexibility and bendability of an elastically strong but compressively weak material (such as rope). This produces a material that outperforms both the component materials; a product that is greater than the sum of its parts. :::In essence, due to evolutionary process and the nature of composite materials, I doubt the inclusion of carbon fiber to the bone structure of the Na'vi has anything but positive effect on the integrity of the bone as a whole, compared to a similar bone without the inclusion of those fibers. From an artistic point of view, I suspect that the inclusion of carbon fiber was supposed to help enhance the perception of the movie-viewer that the Na'vi are BAMFs; bigger, stronger, and more capable of taking punishment than human beings. --NivikLiriak 03:58, December 31, 2009 (UTC) ::::I agree with your statements. My only regret, truly, is that the RDA carried sufficient caliber weapons (I assume) that rendered Quaritch's statements about the Na'vi being "very hard to kill" somewhat moot. Kxetse a-ean 04:30, December 31, 2009 (UTC) :::::Alas, typically something that must move around, find a way to feed itself, and does so by relying on intellect instead of brute strength or toughness (IE: Most humanoids) typically doesn't display 'resistance to 7.62 millimeter diameter pieces of high-velocity metal' as a particularly stunning evolutionary trait. Not, at least, compared to more practical things, like out-climbing predators. :::::Edit: Also note that a large-scale battle lends the RDA certain advantages they typically don't enjoy in small-scale scouting operations. The number of eyes and ears available to a platoon or company-level force of security personnel is much higher than that provided by that at the fire-team level. Also, there's a certain advantage to knowing that your presence is known and expected. You're not at all surprised when the stealth you're not trying to use fails, as opposed to a small group of soldiers that typically tries to be quiet and stealthy, and fails miserably anyway. The element of surprise that the Na'vi typically enjoy was not in effect (at least, not as overwhelmingly in effect) in the final battle. --NivikLiriak 04:37, December 31, 2009 (UTC) The height of Na'vi seems to be a frequent recent edit. Some time ago I added some word-for-word bits from the Survival Guide and gave references (page 26 in this case). If there's a statement on the wiki with a reference, and you change it to differ from that reference... see where this is going? Kxetse a-ean 09:02, January 11, 2010 (UTC) Background Section: The Na'vi page, sadly, is becoming rife with fan-fiction sounding material. I have all of the books thus far published for Avatar as well as a copy of the original scriptment. Nowhere do these materials go into the detail found being contributed by users of this wiki. For example, "If they (the Na'vi) become too numerous, Eywa will devise a way to limit their numbers before they cause an ecological imbalance." Where, exactly, is that from? Or this line: "...plus a curious absence of pesky insects and harmful microorganisms." I'd like sources for these "facts." Otherwise they are utter nonsense and belong elsewhere. Frankly I am tired of trying to help curtail the introduction of editorial material that cannot be found in any of the official sources. Kxetse a-ean 21:28, December 29, 2009 (UTC) :Could you please take away all the information with no source? I really don't have the books about the Na'vis, so you should know more. Then I can block the page so only registered contributors will be able to edit. --[[User:Matias_arana_10|'Shadow Na'vi']] Talk 21:32, December 29, 2009 (UTC) ::You can buy a $1119 AMP collectible but not some books? --IWantheUltimateChange 09:25, January 20, 2010 (UTC) :::I'm not buying it :P --[[User:Matias_arana_10|'Shadow Na'vi']] ~ Talk IRC 12:46, January 20, 2010 (UTC) Rework I have reworked the entire page, moving sourced information to the top into various sections with citations where necessary when not completely evident from the film. I have preserved everyone's speculative works in a section entitled "Commentary and Additional Info" though I think this should be migrated elsewhere. Hopefully everyone likes the change. Kxetse a-ean 04:43, December 30, 2009 (UTC) :Yes, thanks. If any of the info from below is confirmed, we'll pass it to the "real" article. --[[User:Matias_arana_10|'Shadow Na'vi']] Talk 00:51, December 31, 2009 (UTC) During the rework of this page, I had moved the more editorial/commentary material to a major section "Commentary and Additional Info" which was in some ways a duplication of information provided above the section marker. I'd intended to sort of migrate things from the commentary section upwards as the references were found for them. However it's clear with the amount of activity to the page, that it will be a chore to do so. There is a high amount of speculation (or even items from "cut from the movie" or "bonus Blu-Ray material") that might be better served on a separate page until such time it enters the film trilogy on an official basis. The intent would be to have a very precise, but abbreviated version of the Na'vi page. This would allow fans to read the basics, and dig deeper if they so choose. (And provide for less scrolling.) Thoughts on this? Kxetse a-ean 04:16, January 12, 2010 (UTC) :I think things coming from bonus content on DVD or Bluray, such as deleted scenes would best be put in a "Behind the Scenes" section. They really can't be put into the main part of the article as "canon" because its not in the official cut of the movie. I've been including that section in many of the articles I've been working on for that purpose. However, I do think that speculation should be removed from all articles. We deal with facts here. Speculation can be done at any number of community forums. --Zervonn TALK 04:33, January 12, 2010 (UTC) Ok, i can understand what it looks like, but it's NOT sex when they are under the tree of voices. Only the Na'vi form of marriage. Whoever put that info in the mating section, plase either make it"mating" and not "sex" or completely remove it. EDIT:Thank you.--Denizine 03:30, January 13, 2010 (UTC) Length of Life Is anything known about their longevity or age? i did read somewhere that it is similar to the life span of an average human. this information could be deemed false but i will try to find it again and provide an official source. -Avatar- 10:25, January 3, 2010 (UTC) I was wondering this too and I was actually going to ask here, but found out you already made a question about it. Did you find the source? 18:55, January 6, 2010 (UTC) no :( unable to find it. im sure i will come across it one day with out even meaning to... always happens right :P-Avatar- 23:24, January 6, 2010 (UTC) I believe it is on pandorapedia. You can see it on http://www.pandorapedia.com/doku.php/us:na_vi.[[User:Denizine|Denizine]] 19:49, January 16, 2010 (UTC) Bias in Language Use I struggled unsuccessfully to find the "bias" template, that exists on Wikipedia, in order to label a slew of things. The reason being that, since the Na'vi are the native race, their language is and should remain the dominant language (if by sheer number alone). Therefore all flora, fauna, and culturally related elements should have their Na'vi name as the article heading, with all English equivalents redirected thereto. Likewise, all the Human particulars (i.e. "Avatar," machinery, weapons, etc.) should remain in English. To do otherwise is both inaccurate and baised. :I tend to agree with this. --Zervonn TALK 07:01, January 9, 2010 (UTC) ::Although I think that would be more authentic, It would Make finding what one is looking for more difficult, I believe at least. [[User:JayBO|'JayBo']] My Talk 05:06, January 12, 2010 (UTC) Thus the redirection of the English word. No because we are humans reading all this information like hungry children and not Na'vi so human names should stay as titles unless an independent situation arises where this needs to be reversed. Its like renaming all the Wikipedia page titles into Chinese with English text. --IWantheUltimateChange 15:25, January 17, 2010 (UTC) : Its actually nothing like what you are saying. Beside the fact that there are Chinese pages, what is going on with the English Wikipedia is a Latinate transliteration from non-Latinate alphabets because, obviously, language-specific keyboards are not commonplace. What is going on here is a complete disregard for the original language. The Na'vi name for a particular thing is already in a Latinate alphabet so there is no need for a transliteration. This disregard equates to an American or native English speaker taking the name of, say, Beijing, and calling it "New Chicago." I appreciate the criticism, but your arguement does not follow logically. I see your point but I agree with JayBo it would make finding everything harder and although it would be authentic it should stay the same Tsmukan Clothing there are 2 sections in the artical regarding clothing both rather short. also, did anyone else notice that it often seamed to mostly be luck and lighting that stopped us from getting very familiar with Neyteri's anatomy? like one 'bra' that seamed to be feathers hanging from a bit of string and one just conveniently happening to over either nipple. a light breaze and the baby-feeders are shown to all. Agent Tasmania 04:54, January 16, 2010 (UTC) Prehensible I changed the line: (Note that their tails do not seem to be prehensile, despite some official guides indicating they are) because desputing a official trusted source like the Activist Survival Guide isn't the best idea. The statement is more opinion then fact, based on limited observation. IWantheUltimateChange 15:19, January 17, 2010 (UTC) : I removed the note about the Na'vi tail being comparable to a panther's "partially prehensile tail." Firstly, panther is a genus and can refer to a number of large cats, none of which have a prehensile or even a partially prehensile tail. Secondly, the definition of "prehensile" means "able to grasp," and in no scene of the movie does a Na'vi take hold of something with his or her tail. Following your guidelines in the references section, the movie is deemed accurate above all secondary sources. Therefore, it is not merely an opinion, but fact. : : i don't know if im right but is it not for ballance when they are running along tree's or climbimg ? Species infobox Should the "Home Planet" field in the species infobox be changed to "Home World"? This would seem more appropriate, given Pandora is a moon, not a planet.--Skxawng! 07:23, January 19, 2010 (UTC) :Good point, yeah. IWantheUltimateChange 09:27, January 20, 2010 (UTC) ::Sounds good to me. [[User:Draginfli/Sandbox|'='i= ''']]Draginfli =i=' 05:35, January 31, 2010 (UTC) LOVE THEM!!!!!!!!!! sounds good Mating - Reference? The info in the last paragraph needs to be referenced in my opinion. This doesn't appear in the film or any ''official fan material. From what I can tell, this is take directly from a fanfic. I've added a cite needed for that part of the article for the moment (we really need some more article management templates) and that can be removed once a reference is provided from official material. If you disagree obviously feel free to discuss. NachoDuck 00:48, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :that is from the survival guide, ill add the reference JayBO Talk IRC Videos 00:59, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :: Any chance you can give me a specific page number for that? The only information I can find on page 30 is very vague and doesn't reference all the material that's in the article. Thanks. NachoDuck 01:25, January 31, 2010 (UTC) :: Restored this talk section after it was removed. From the history of said persons contributions it would appear as though they are the same ones who wrote that section in the article. Do not remove ongoing discussion. NachoDuck 14:18, January 31, 2010 (UTC) Its almost word for word on the mating section *The Na'vi are monogamous creatures who mate for life. The mechanics of reproduction are similar to that of humans and other Terran mammals. However, their unique physiology provides the Na'vi with a level of intimacy unknown on Earth. Cultural anthropologists believe that when an appropriate mate has been selected (which can take many years), the male and female Na'vi will connect queues (called Tsahaylu) to create an emotional bond that lasts a lifetime. The intertwining of queues is both highly erotic and profoundly spiritual, but does not in itself lead to reproduction. **This is is factual information found not only somewhat from the guide but as well as what JC has said and other avatar design staff *Traditionally, once a Na'vi male has passed the tests on the path to manhood and has been accepted into the clan as an adult, he is not only allowed to make his bow from the wood of the Hometree, but he is also expected to choose his woman. After the woman has been chosen, the new couple are mated before Eywa. **This is seen in the movie itself, once one becomes a reborn Omatacaya, he gets these choices *Jake Sully chooses Neytiri to become his mate, and she accepts and mates with him under the Tree of Voices following his acceptance into the Omaticaya clan as 'One of the People'. **Seen in the movie *Once Tsahaylu is made between the couple, the ultimate in intimacy, pleasure that is unfathomable to humans, causes the somewhat unwillful sharing of the couple's good memories, and is a sign of Eywa's acceptance. If a couple can be foreseen to not have a pleasant or happy future, Eywa has been known to reverse the feeling produced by making Tsahaylu, a sign to the couple that mating would only, in simple words, ruin their lives together, and therefore prevents the mating, because of it's life-long span. After the resulting embracing and kissing, the couple is sent to sleep by Eywa, and the two dream hintings of their future together. The couple will experience the pleasure of Tsahaylu from the moment of connection, until they awaken and have completed mating, when they disconnect and return to the clan, mated for life **This is from the survival guide JayBO Talk IRC Videos 17:15, January 31, 2010 (UTC) : It was mostly just the last paragraph I was challenging, everything else in there is spot on. I'll take your word for it that it's in the survival guide somewhere ''but it can't be in the same place I'm looking (hence why I asked for a page number). The only section I can find relating to Na'vi mating is vague, only a short paragraph with an image below as you can see http://imgkk.com/i/8k9165.jpg. I haven't had the chance to read through the guide in full yet, so that's probably why I haven't come across it, but maybe you can point me in the right direction. Cheers :) NachoDuck 19:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC) bones and braids I cleaned up the description of Na'Vi carbon fiber-reinforced bones a bit as it seems we are in agreement that the 'brittle' descriptor was incorrect, and as a worker with fiberglass and other composites I can assure you that such bones would be not only very strong but also very sound. A fracture would also still be structually held together instead of shattering like human bones can do. That in turn would help the bone structure heal itself without need for setting a splint. (Do we cite Pandorapedia on this site? Their article gives similar info) Also, as stated on page 28 of the Survival Guide, the queue is not 'simply' a braid but indeed 'this seemingly conventional braid actually sheathes a remarkably intricate system of neural tendrils...' This seems to imply that yes it IS a hair braid with the neural tendrils braided inside for protection. So I cleaned up the Queue description a bit to reflect that. I much prefer that Cameron went away from his original 'hairless' Na'Vi because they do such wonderful braiding and beadwork with their hair :-) � T'K'ru TK'ru 08:11, February 2, 2010 (UTC) :Matias and I try to avoid using pandorapedia(website not game) as much info as possible, its their own info which I can't find anywhere else, and as far as I can see, never leave a source for any of it. People claim they are an offical source, but I never see that said either. 'JayBO Talk IRC Videos' 16:46, February 2, 2010 (UTC) Skin color Hi, since this is my first contribution to a Wiki I hope it's OK, what I am doing here - otherwise please correct me.. I just wanted to note, what I read about the skin color of the Na'vi. As far as I understood the blue skin tone is caused by a chemical reaction with the atmosphere (I will try to find the source for this again - I think it was out of one of the making of videos on youtube). A little further reading about the planet revealed that the atmosphere contains hydrogen cyanide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide) which is known to be a reagent to a blue substance called "prussian blue" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_blue). Ok - the latter part is of course more assumption than fact, but this would at least explain why the Na'vi's blood is red while their skin tone is blue. DocMoon 14:37, February 2, 2010 (CET) :Impressive research. It certainly seems plausible enough and if we can find a proper source for the information, I see no reason why we cannot incorporate it into the article. Keep working on it and get back to us on it. By the way, we could really use someone with your follow through on this wiki so keep editing! - Regards, Gaelen S.Talk • 06:29, February 5, 2010 (UTC) :: But if the blue skin is due to the atmosphere, why are the Avatars blue to begin with? The only way I see that working is if the blue skin is apart of the Na'vi DNA. If so, then is it possible that the Hydrogen cyanide changed the Na'vi blue way back to when the Na'vi were first evolving thus causing the DNA to incorporate blue skin? - Sarah Don't quote me for sure on this (I'd have to find the source), but I think at one point JC said the Na'vi skin color (and that of other animals on Pandora, like the prolemuris) is to blend in with the plant life in the jungle, and the bluish bioluminescence produced at night. Edit: In addition, this is from IMDB: "According to James Cameron, the Na'vi are blue to create a conceptual parallel with traditional Hindu depictions of God (e.g., in the forms of Vishnu, Shiva, Rama, Krishna, etc.), but also because 'I just like the color blue.'" Eltungawng 19:35, February 26, 2010 (UTC) Na'vi Taxonomy name I read some of the avatar survivial guide a while ago and I seem to recall it said that the Na'vis taxonomy name was Homo Pandorus. Could anyone confirm this?Welcome to the matrix 14:27, August 20, 2010 (UTC) Yep, page 27 of the Survival Guide says "Taxonomy: ''Homo pandorus". OZZY 14:33, August 20, 2010 (UTC) Yep, that has been given, despite being taxonomically invalid. 21:39, January 26, 2011 (UTC) My thoughts on the Na'vi I watched Avatar for the first time a few days ago at the cinema and I gotta say the Na'vi are certainly a merciful bunch, arent't they? For a start, they didn't kill either Jake or Grace after declaring them traitors and spared them despite knowing Jake was originally a human spy, and they let the surviving humans live after the final battle even though they had previously cost them the Tree of Voices, the Hometree, their original leader Eytukan, many lives in the final battle, Tsu'tey among them, and tried to blow up the Tree of Souls and yet, they spared the remaining Sky People even after all the carnage and heartbreak they had put them through. Can you think of a more merciful species in any other form of ficton? 13:07, September, 1 2010 (UTC) :Talk pages are only meant for discussions about the article's content, not the subject. For general discussions, please register and create a blog. Faern. 3D-HD-Pics 19:57, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Na'vi in Blu-Ray Pandorapedia I typed out the Na'vi entry from the Pandorapedia on the Blu-Ray - posted at the Avatar Forums - anyone want to include the new info from this here? Neme 'Zusatee 05:15, December 15, 2010 (UTC) :Feel free to do so if you find something that is missing in the article. ;) Faern. 3D-HD-Pics 20:40, December 15, 2010 (UTC) ::Added some minor details - I'm new to Wiki editing! Neme 'Zusatee 04:03, December 16, 2010 (UTC) question ? does anyone know why neytiri wears that head dress thing when she is flying her banshee bescuase i dont see why she need's it because she is like the only one who were's it ? Dannycox18 10:05, January 23, 2011 (UTC) It is like a woman carrying a different kind of purse. Unless you mean her protective visor? Rich oh i never thought of it that way thanks Rich Danny Laungauge does anyone know what the Na'vi says on the back of the collecter edtion box ? Why am I STILL obsessed with this movie? Why am I still compelled every week on one of my days off to spend over 3 hours watching this movie? Is there anyone else out there? lol... Rich The talk page is used for discussion of the article itself, not the subject of the article. HKT 14:17, January 23, 2011 (UTC) Your question would be good subject matter for a blog ... give it a try! ☼ Ghaziya, Phoenix Rising ~ Peace, Love and Hope ☼ 17:30, January 23, 2011 (UTC) Question ? In the movie Jake says 'ill punch a hole you follow me through' then Tsu'tey say's something in Na'vi. Could someone please translate this for me ? :The above statement also applies for you. Faern. 3D-HD-Pics 19:10, January 23, 2011 (UTC) I noticed something. Shouldn't the fact that the Na'vi have belly buttons be mentioned in the physiology section? : Probably not but that would also indicate that, contrary to what the article states, they are placental so that part of the article probably needs fixing. --Kitsunegami 11:38, August 1, 2011 (UTC) Placental mammals They ARE, despite what the article says - there are several sources that state they are and the only place it has been said they aren't is a single offhand remark in an interview given at an early stage of the devlopment process - that interview also contained numerous other glaring errors and I doubt it could (or should) be considered canon. :I agree since, as mentioned above, their belly buttons are readibly visible. I'm going to be bold and make the change. --Kitsunegami 05:16, August 4, 2011 (UTC) ::Mr Cameron disagrees with you: Right from the beginning I said, "She's got to have tits," even though that makes no sense because her race, the Na'vi, aren't placental mammals. http://gawker.com/5403302/james-cameron-reveals-his-quest-to-build-more-perfect-cgi-boobs I think that's also mentioned in the Extended Blu-rays Pandorapedia that the reference points to, but I didn't check. Faern. 3D-HD-Pics 00:51, August 5, 2011 (UTC) ::I must admit, I was very confused when faced with the whole placenta-less belly button problem, especially when you consider the way the avatars are grown, but I attribute that to human DNA influencing. That said, Na'vi nurse their infants, which is logical because they're obviously mammilian in build, but the internal workings of the female has me stumped. Cameron must have planned this out, but aside from an internal egg-birthing similar to sharks (how that gives the umbilical scar, I don't know but work with me here) I can't see how it's done. If Cameron's adament, then we can't argue - but I agree, it is quite - glaringly erronious. Society and Culture I can't find anything about how Na'vi live together in this section, except clans. After watching the movie I thought they all lived as couples, like humans, and wondered why that is. But now maybe they don't alle live as two? And since they live in clans like some ancient human race, wouldn't it make even more sense if they weren't living and loving as couples, like the other races? -- Lexischemen 21:53, February 24, 2011 (UTC) :There is no canon information available concerning why they live as clans instead as couples. On a personal note, I would say that it is because they live with the forest, not only in it. They have a deep connection with it, and they live together to have a deeper relationship with Eywa through ceremonies or things like that. Again, that is just pure speculation. They live together as a clan because they are deeply connected with each other, they aren't fully independent beings, they depend from each other, as a big family. -- 00:22, February 25, 2011 (UTC)